Talk:Eurocontrol

This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

Europe

	Europe portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Europe, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to European topics of a cross-border nature on Wikipedia.EuropeWikipedia:WikiProject EuropeTemplate:WikiProject EuropeEurope
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Belgium

	Belgium portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Belgium, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Belgium on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BelgiumWikipedia:WikiProject BelgiumTemplate:WikiProject BelgiumBelgium-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Organizations

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

FYRM

The states name is Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia ! See:http://www.eurocontrol.int/dgs/publications/skyway/1998/v3n12/p26.html Vergina 21:12, 13 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I added the "Former Yugoslav" back in. [[Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia]] just redirects. --Jiang 21:14, 13 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is not identical to Republic of Macedonia ---->Vergina 21:25, 13 Oct 2003 (UTC)

You need to answer with more backing. I don't see how. "Former Yugolslav" is already included in the article. It's just not part of the link. --Jiang 23:22, 13 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Lifted from somewhere

Is it just me or does the content of this page all sounds suspiciously as if it was lifted from a EUROCONTROL promotion document somewhere? (in which case it may give Wikipedia legal and POV problems) Andrewferrier 18:38, 2004 Nov 23 (UTC)

It has been taken from either http://www.eurocontrol.int/library/brochures/cfmu.pdf

in the pdf it states at the bottom: This document is published by EUROCONTROL in the interests of the exchange of information. It may be copied in whole or in part, providing that the copyright notice and disclaimer are included he information contained in this document may not be modified without prior written permission from EUROCONTROL. I've added a references section (I hope that's ok) but really the text needs rewriting because it's frankly crap. 80.229.143.117 22:52, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Considering that the contents cannot be changed without prior written consent, that would put it at odds with Wikipedia policy, and probably should not be included. --CVaneg 08:30, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Where exactly is this copied from? There's no violation that I can see in the above document (this was originally pointed out on WP:CV). -Lommer | ^talk 21:19, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

According to Fair use#Amount and substantiality, the amount of text is too small to count as infringement. Plus, it has by now been reformulated. Pgan002 21:38, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bombastic

As some of this text was initially promotional, it sounds a bit over-inflated: "widely recognized as the world's most productive and efficient air traffic control center", "far-above-average productivity", and the general tone of that paragraph. Are there any refernces to substantiate these claims? Pgan002 21:46, 24 January 2006 (UTC) I just edited it a bit. Pgan002[reply]

Acronyms

MAUC (originally it was AUC) is not really an acronym. I cannot find it in the supposed source, or on the internet. ACT is not an acronym either, though it is mentioned at these pages. What shall we do about them? Pgan002 22:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.eurocontrol.int/epr/gallery/content/public/docs/guides/acronyms_april08%20low.pdf has a very long list of abbreviations. Incidentally, it says that MUAC is really MUACC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.181.68 (talk) 18:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article is very poor

It does not describe what eurocontrol is in the slightest. It goes some way to describe the air traffic control system of the Benelux cuntries, but this is also inaccurate. (This would be rather like describing the electrical system in a car, and trying to pass it off as a description of a car, which it is not)! For example, MAUC does not control upper airspace in Germany. This done at Rhein Radar in Karlsruhe Germany. It uses a system originally derived from MADAP in the late 1960s. Until 1972, the software and ATC in (West) Germany was provided by Eurocontrol, when the ATC was nationalised. The software maintenence and development, remained a Eurocontrol function in Karlsruhe. This ATC was operated in conjunction with the Lufwaffe and USAF. In fact KARLDAP was said to be the only ATC sytem to integrate control of both of these. The civilian ATC function was privatised in 1993 and I am not certain of the involvement of Eurocontrol at present. But these are just two examples of relationship between Eurocontrol and nation governments. Each member states has its own arrangement, and these are many and varied. Even if the info in the article is lifted from Eurocontrol publications, it must be remembered that it is a highly politicised organisation. By that, I mean that it is not inconccievable that Maastricht may want to give this impression, for its own purposes, though I suspect the article is simply describing Eurocontrol's in Benelux, and not Eurocontrol itself. The suggestion that they also control upper airspace in Germany hints at competitveness between Karlsruhe and Maastricht, but they have never provided upper airspace ATC for Germany (I belive prior to Eurocontrol, it was undertaken by the Allied powers).

Also the statement "EUROCONTROL Maastricht Upper Area Control Centre (MUAC), widely recognized as the world's most productive and efficient air traffic control center" surely needs a citation, though I believe this probably comes from MUAC itself!

The article makes no mention of the fact that Eurocontrol followed hot on the heals of Eurocoal and Euratom as one of the original european bodies, and was established in 1960. It was established to harmonise ATC in Europe (Europe in its own sense not in the sense of the EU). It therefore has many member states, but its constitution, payscales and taxation status are similar to all other european bodies.

The degree to which eurocontrol is actually involved in ATC varies from meber state to member state. The fact that MADAP is maintained and run by Eurocontrol staff is just one of many arrangements, but it IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE CASE that all member states use MADAP; they do not!

As I remember it, Eurocontrol is Headquartered in Brussels, has a training centre in Luxembourg and an experimental development centre at Brettigny, near Paris France.

It could be argued that Eurocontrol is an expensive and beurocratic failure. One of its founding goals was to reduce the number of IT systems used to handle ATC in Europe; they have proliferated since 1960.

I cannot remeber what the relationship is between Eurocontrol and ICAO; this may vary from member states to member state.

I will hunt down my notes on the functions of Eurocontrol.

In Europe during the Cold War use of airspace was a military matter and commercial civilian traffic was required to fit-in with the various European Air Defence Regions which all had differing traffic requirements and standards. Eurocontrol was set up to harmonise and make these standards more widely applicable so that commercial civilian traffic could transit any such NATO regions seamlessly both safely and without causing unwanted air defence alerts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.10.189 (talk) 09:33, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved by silent consensus. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 15:01, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation → Eurocontrol — This organisation is virtually always referred to as Eurocontrol. SSJ ^t 21:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Greenland

Is this map accurate? Is Greenland administered by Eurocontrol? How does Eurocontrol interface with NORAD then, since NORAD radars and a NORAD airbase are on Greenland.

70.29.210.155 (talk) 04:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No idea. Does anyone know? --U5K0'sTalk_{Make WikiLove not WikiWar} 08:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- Just checked and Greenland is not in EUROCONTOL. [1] --U5K0'sTalk_{Make WikiLove not WikiWar} 08:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What is the relevance of NORAD? AFAIU, NORAD is purely military, while Eurocontrol is strictly civilian. Jan olieslagers (talk) 10:14, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why the two disagreeing maps?

Why does the article have two maps with different information? The one in the infobox is correct in regards to Latvia, but Greenland is also different between the maps.Naraht (talk) 12:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The orange map was made after Armenia joined, but before Latvia joined. It should be updated by adding Latvia. Alinor (talk) 19:54, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

EASA difference

Can someone explain in the article the difference between this organization

EUROCONTROL - European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation

and this one:

EASA - European Aviation Safety Agency

? Setreset (talk) 08:05, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

AFAIK: Eurocontrol takes care of Air Traffic Control, it is an operator; whereas EASA creates rules, it is an authority. But if this question pops up here, perhaps it merits a clarification in the article? Jan olieslagers (talk) 10:10, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Jan for this clarification, it helps me. My intention was indeed to clarify it inside the article. Setreset (talk) 10:39, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, I'm glad to learn my reply had some interest. I would however recommend you find formal documented confirmation for my idea, I do not claim any authority, neither am I an encyclopedical reference! Cheers, Jan olieslagers (talk) 14:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Eurocontrol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 08:49, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Eurocontrol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:46, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Eurocontrol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:48, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: International Organizations

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2024 and 18 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Goodcall55 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by CMailhot (talk) 16:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]